changing flame colors

topic posted Wed, August 19, 2009 - 5:58 PM by  offlineTim
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I am trying to figure out how to change the color of my flames when i spin. Does anyone know how to do this? Also, I was wanting to figure out how to "throw sparks". I saw this at Interfuse this year and thought that it would go over well at a show. Finally, are any of these fuel modifications safe, and i use the term loosely of course, for fire breathing?
posted by:
Tim
online Tim
Illinois
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  • Re: changing flame colors

    Thu, August 20, 2009 - 9:05 AM
    Various solutions of flame coloring agents cam be added to lamp oil or white gas to cause colored flames. Most of them, unfortunately, have toxic byproducts. The only one I think MIGHT be safe for breathing is lithium, which colors flames red. Lithium, though, is an antidepressant drug which is also a controlled substance. Don't EVEN think of using it.

    Also if you're coloring your flames, your poi heads will burn out faster.

    Throwing sparks might be accomplished using powdered iron. But use that with poi, and never for breathing.

    Hope this helps.
  • Re: changing flame colors

    Thu, August 20, 2009 - 12:46 PM
    I once bought a color flame oil from a company that is no longer in business. Tasted nasty... and made my throat feel even worse. The other problem with using chemicals to breathe with... is that you need an alcohol based fuel to breathe with... which is universally stupid. For breathing.... just stick with the normal stuff :)

    13 years of breathing experience... and I haven't found anything that works well.
  • Re: changing flame colors

    Thu, August 20, 2009 - 4:27 PM
    Re: 'Also, I was wanting to figure out how to "throw sparks"'.
    I am NOT a fire spinner, there are many legitimate resources out there/in here, but I've worked a few shows.
    I saw Lohr's crew from St. Louis do this. They used steel wool balls soaked in white gas. It was dangerous, and I would definitely seek advice from an experienced fire Troupe!
    KK
    • Re: changing flame colors

      Thu, August 20, 2009 - 4:44 PM
      KK, the problem with the balls of steel wool is that they tend to melt into many little balls that may get inadvertently thrown at an audience. You need a muich larger safety area. Kaalin is spot on (as usual). Don't do it.
  • Re: changing flame colors

    Thu, August 20, 2009 - 5:17 PM
    The only mixtures for colored fuel that i know of are;
    Green: 80-90%white gas, 10-20% of a mixture of HEET(yes the stuff for your car)and powdered boric acid at a ratio of 1-2 tablespoons per bottle of HEET
    Blue: Denatured Alcohol with "A lot" of powdered copper chloride mixed in.

    Changing the ratios will alter your flames final hue.

    These chemicals smell very pungent and are not exactly safe to breathe when burned.
    But if you're set on colored flame then you just need to be extra conscious of where your wicks are when you inhale.

    These aren't necessarily the only way to get these colors but they're what i know of.

    If a prop is going to be green, then it cant be green some of the time, and normal some of the time;
    It's all or nothin baby, so you must remember that if you want colored flames on a prop,
    that it will be only that color FOREVER.
    cross contamination of fuels will ruin the wicks ability to create colored fire,
    and you will inevitably revert back to an orange tone.

    I'll try and solicit a few others from minneapolis to share their knowledge of colors and sparks.
    Maybe Shawn will finally tell me what sparking metal he's using when he's breathing.
  • Re: changing flame colors

    Fri, August 21, 2009 - 12:29 PM
    In regards to Lithium - Lithium carbonate is the antidepressant Rhino was talking about. It is a controlled substance that is very hard to come by. Also in "normal people" can be majorly hazardous to you in large quantities - Such as the amount needed to to color fuel for breathing.


    *****ALL COLORED FUEL IS HAZARDOUS and should not be put in your mouth.*****
    +++Breathing vapors can be bad as well+++

    You can still get lithium online legally. As Lithium Chloride - lithium chloride will give you a very deep red flame.

    Cupric Chloride will produce a green flame to start out and slowly fades to a cobalt blue color.

    Strontium will produce more of an orangish red

    Boric acid produces a green flame. (roach killer)

    Potassium chloride burns with a very very orange flame........even though it's supposed to be purple.(the amount of heat needed to reach purple is not likely to happen from spinning)

    these are all laboratory metal salts and can be purchased from www.sciencecompany.com/

    However, I must point out almost all these are HIGHLY CAUSTIC. And can give you a nasty chemical burn if not washed of quickly if skin contact occurs.

    The best "fuel" to dissolve into is ethanol..... The higher the proof the better the color ( Everclear works awesome) But you can also use denatured alcohol. Denatured alcohol is mostly ethanol with some methanol mixed in to make it toxic to drink. " SUNNY SIDE " DENATURED ALCOHOL has the least methanol mixed in @ 3% (is the "safest" to spin with)

    The reason that methanol is such an issue: When it burns, the chemical reaction that takes place converts it into formaldehyde(embalming fluid). Which never leaves the body and after long exposure to it can kill you or cause major mental defects.


    ( When / if ) you decide to try this PLASTIC containers ONLY. Glass can break or explode , and metal will get eaten by the fuel.
    MAKE SURE TO LABEL IT AS FUEL - when mixed some of the fuels look like Koolaid.


    It is a chemical reaction that takes place when you mix the fuels. So in that, Expect it to heat up or cool down, and also to expand and or contract.


    mix in the metal salts until no more dissolves into the ethanol. This will be the saturation point. and will give you the deepest colors possible. The longer you let it sit, the better the color looks.

    Use one set of wicks for one color only or you lose the effect. red set, blue set and so on.

    the fuel is hard on your gear. one burn it about equal to 15-20 normal burns. The fuel likes to eat the metal on your sets fast. And your wicks will become hard as rocks from the salts drying on them.


    Ethanol / alcohol in general has a higher transfer rate than while gas or parafin. So watch hitting yourself.
    And only burn it outside and at least 20 feet away from your audience. ( you might know it's bad for you but the audience might not)




    Hope this helps out. let me know if you have any other questions


    Camo

    Minneapolis

  • Re: changing flame colors

    Sun, August 23, 2009 - 9:29 PM
    Thanks for the advise guys. I was already pretty sure that I couldn't really breathe in technicolor. Oh well. I am about to start a chem class tomorrow so with any luck, I may be able to weasel some info out of the professor about potential substances. Iron... I may try that. Just keep me away from powdered aluminum or we may have some real flames on our hands. I don't think I wanna play with thermite.

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